Curse

floppinghog · Aug 20, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

no more NERF Bandaids. no.

for one thing (i aint gonna read more dribble on this first) warriors are the pressure all teams need to have any balance at all. all casters = weaker vs phy so a warrior keeps them in check or else what is this game then? it becomes a caster fight. LAME.

The Chimpster · Aug 20, 2006, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Well I have to disagree with you there - warriors are still undisputed kings of defense and realise that I'm not suggesting that we nerf them to the point where they can't dish out damage. I'm mearly saying that the balance should lie with the elementists whose role it is to dish damage out.

How many other RPG's have you played where warriors do more damage then mages? Few I would imagine.

And may I suggest you set a goal to read the "dribble" in a post before making rash comments on the content of it. Seems a little counter productive.

Zui · Aug 20, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

/no...

Age · Aug 20, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rancour

Quote from Factions manual: "With magic derived from the very foundations of nature itself, Elementalists can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession."

Quote from Prophecies manual: "They can inflict more damage in a single strike than any other profession."

Technically, Anet makes the laws of the Guildwars universe, meaning there IS a "law of the universe" saying they are supposed to be max damage dealers.

That was written all before open beta started and it is all wrong today and in beta Eles weren't considered heavy damge dealers like Warriors.Eles didn't take a big hit like Warriors did with armour and rune nerf and Avarre got it right as that is what Eles do in GvG.I would like to see the War. Absorb. rune reverted back.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 20, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Elementist spike on it's own isn't justification for Elementist. First of all, the fact that it has to be a team to be a significant threat is a weakness, ever faced a Warrior pounding team?, they don't even need skills, and it is a broken arguement.

Elementist isn't functional in alot of costs and recasts on many of his skills, damage that only pinters over time has high cost, low duration and high recast, wile his heavy hitting spells simply have high cost, far higher cost and recast per damage than other classes, which forces and betrays the use of energy storage and heavy energy management.

I don't think Warrior needs a nerf, any weaker and it would be broken, but there is a clear standard in effectiveness in Warrior and many other classes, and many elementist skills, even entire builds, fall short of that mark. High recast times need to be overcome, just about anything over 30 seconds needs to be reworked in power or frequency, because a skill slot used up to activate one powerful (but not powerful enough) skill every 30-60 seconds simply doesn't compare to the thrashing power of many reuseable skills.

Warriors effectiveness isn't gauges in just how much damage he can do, how much damage they can resist is also significant. If you compare the amount of abuse an Elementist can resist and the damage he can yeild compared to Warriors damage and resistance, it is a significant gap, and it should be addressed, I hope Anet improves the functionallity of many elementist skills to bridge the gap.

Anduin · Aug 20, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chimpster

Well I have to disagree with you there - warriors are still undisputed kings of defense and realise that I'm not suggesting that we nerf them to the point where they can't dish out damage. I'm mearly saying that the balance should lie with the elementists whose role it is to dish damage out.

How many other RPG's have you played where warriors do more damage then mages? Few I would imagine.

And may I suggest you set a goal to read the "dribble" in a post before making rash comments on the content of it. Seems a little counter productive.

They do do more damage. Add up how much they do per multiple targets in the area of effect for their spells. A warrior is only hitting one target at a time.

They nerfed melee to hell in Diablo 2, making every caster type the way to go (I love how every game seems to be full of power gamers, just waiting to hop on the band wagon of the next most powerful build. Hammerdins, anyone?). I stopped playing after that. I'll stop playing this game too if they nerf warriors, as I only play melee in any rpg I play. Casting just isn't fun to me at all.

Arkantos · Aug 20, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Warriors have to run RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU to do ANY damage. If you slow down a warrior, he's next to useless.

Symbol · Aug 20, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

1) Elementalists do not do more damage than warriors in PvP. Not even close. Their AoE radii, cast times, and recharges are far too anemic for that to happen.

2) Balancing the game based on feelings is retarded. No one really gives a damn if you _like_ playing casters or _like_ playing melee. Stop bringing it up.

3) Warriors do not need a nerf. Being a "master of defense" is idiotic when people can just ignore you. It's only thanks to warriors that things die at _all_ in pvp (for the most part).

4) Elementalists should be buffed so that they become a viable damage dealing alternative. Having to decide between a fragile ranged caster who dishes out big damage at range or a tough melee powerhouse is an interesting decision.

Deciding between a warrior who can do damage and an elementalist who can't, or between a warrior who can tank but not do damage, and an elementalist who can-these are not interesting decisions.

Age · Aug 20, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chimpster

Well I have to disagree with you there - warriors are still undisputed kings of defense and realise that I'm not suggesting that we nerf them to the point where they can't dish out damage. I'm mearly saying that the balance should lie with the elementists whose role it is to dish damage out.

How many other RPG's have you played where warriors do more damage then mages? Few I would imagine.

And may I suggest you set a goal to read the "dribble" in a post before making rash comments on the content of it. Seems a little counter productive.

This game from concept was intended on being a PvP game and sitll is and the most important part being GvG as well as the Halls of Heros.This not your classic RPG where Eles are considered Mages if it was they would be called that.

Ima_Poundyou · Aug 20, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

This game from concept was intended on being a PvP game and sitll is and the most important part being GvG as well as the Halls of Heros.

First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the idea of this game was for it to be a PvP game. While PvP obviously plays a big part in it, the PvE aspect can be just as big. In no way was this meant to be a PvP only game. This is not, however, the argument at hand.

Warrior offense does not need to be nerfed. There are soooo many counters to a Warrior that it's not even funny. If you don't have a team that can counter the pressure of a Warrior, then it's your own fault. Not theirs. If you're an Elementalist and want to shut down a Warrior, use something like Blinding Flash or Enervating Charge. If you're a mesmer, bring an Empathy, or maybe Distortion for evasion. If you're a Necromancer, bring one of the many Warrior's bane skills... Insidious Parasite, Spiteful Spirit, Price of Failure, and the list goes on. Rangers have Throw Dirt, Pin Down, and can apply poison, burning, bleeding, etc. for damage over time, countering the Warrior's high AL. If you honestly can't find a way to counter a Warrior's offense, then it's your own fault. Search it up on Guildwiki or something. The Warrior is just fine the way it is.

As far as Elementalist "buffing" goes, I honestly can't have a good opinion on that. I, for one, do not have an Elementalist that I use regularly. However, Elementalists that I've seen in PvE and PvP alike can be just as effective as any other class. From what is seeming to be said, people are complaining because the Elementalist can't simply cast a few spells and kill something. It's not meant to be that way. Guild Wars is a game that I believe is meant to be based upon the skill of the player, and not the skill of a class. If you're sad because you can't just use two or three spells and cause massive amounts of damage, then just play as another class. Better yet, be a Warrior, and learn how people counter you.

Sorry for the rant. I'm done now, I promise.

The Lich Ranger · Aug 20, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

why would you buff elementalists ? what kind of buff are you thinking off ? more damage ? ever faced a solid ele spike team ? please, don't give them more damage output.

Stop raving about warriors already, yes, they have the best DPS in the game when they can do what they want. However every class has warrior shutdown, going from necro hexes, mesmer hexes, wards, blind, evading/blocking stances, evading/blocking enchantments, ...

Warriors can indeed do an insane amount of damage, but they face the most shutdown potential any class can face ingame, so that kind of balances it out, doesn't it ?

classes are fine as they are, people should stop asking for a buff for their favourite class

So true

Warriors are the easiest to shut down, for example a necro with SS

penguo · Aug 20, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

[QUOTE=The Chimpster]Well I have to disagree with you there - warriors are still undisputed kings of defense and realise that I'm not suggesting that we nerf them to the point where they can't dish out damage. I'm mearly saying that the balance should lie with the elementists whose role it is to dish damage out.

How many other RPG's have you played where warriors do more damage then mages? Few I would imagine.

Ummm...... yeah a warrior is supposed to have high armor and take hits, but unless they are w/e warriors cant do meteor shower can they(PVE)? Really warriors can be shut down much easier.(PVP) Also.... reading from the manual is dumb, considering they just had it written before release, and just copied from the prophecies one for factions.

And to add to what age said, Mages in WoW are portal suppliers among other things and totally different than our elementalist. Dont kill me for mention of wow.

RotteN · Aug 20, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

SS isn't shutdown, sure, you have to use healing sig every 4 hits, who cares. The real shutdown is snares, blind, hexes like price of failure, spirit of failure, reckless haste, blurred vision.

The OP said that mesmers can shut down ele's just as good as warriors, sure, but he fails to see monks, ritualists, necro's, rangers and ele's can shut down a warrior aswell, and keep him in check. So any of those classes on the opponents team can cripple your warrior offense.

Elementalists have their place in GvG, and no, it's not the place of "zomg-uber-damage"-caster, but then again, does it realy have to be that way ?

You claim the current game mechanics are wrong because it's written down in some manual ?

They won't buff ele damage, because it would make caster spike a real hell (you realy don't want those guys to be able to spike through a double infuse).

Ira Blinks · Aug 20, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lich Ranger

So true

Warriors are the easiest to shut down, for example a necro with SS

Eles are like 100 times easier to shutdown... except that it is not needed, because they don't pose a significant threat like warriors do. So please stop bringing up this retarded argument over and over again.

Kern Wolf · Aug 21, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I think the OP needs to learn how to play an effective ele build before saying that warriors need to be nerfed, or that eles don't deal enough damage.
My guild has a number of eles that are lauging at this. And for laughs, sometimes they ask me, "How do you deal any damage", to which I reply, "How do YOU guys deal any?"
They LOVE their profession, and are damn god at dealing damage.
Me? Yes, Im a warrior; we got our nerf when ANET screwed with shields/Knight's Armor/runes. But the fact is that I learned to make the necessary changes, and feel pretty good with my damage output. My guildies have played longer than me; to them, if you can't adjust, don't play the profession.
Did you go through Prophecies/Factions as an ele? Or did you go on a few missions/quests, and decide that the "damage" that eles deal out wasn't enough for you?

lishi · Aug 21, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilly Ress

This is because everything has higher armor and the high damage ele spells get more damage through having a net damage higher than a warrior's.

this is not really true.

if you nuke a ranger or warrior they have high armor , to a caster mob the damage made by the nuke is still a lot.

Terra Xin · Aug 21, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

You have to understand one thing. Do NOT take the manual out of context. In every circumstance, elementalists can do more damage in a SINGLE STRIKE than any other class in the game, the manual does not say that it deals MORE DAMAGE than any other class in the game.

I would also like to note that warriors have the best "self defense" in the game, ritualists have the best group defense, and monks have the best single-target defense.

Someone mentioned that warriors have just as much counters as elementalists? Failure to specify as con-phew-char says, if you talk out of your ass, something brown will come out.

Condition wise, Ele's have... daze... which is rare to inflict.

Warriors have blind and weakness, which is easy to do.

Spells? Mesmers have every counter against every warrior build. Ele's have wards, water magic, an effective permanent blind build. Monk's smiting attribute line is mainly anti-warrior and anti-necro (you have no idea how much damage SoRage deals^^). Trapper rangers, defense on expertise, and funnily enough, if you take Rigor Mortis + Barbs + Glass Arrows + Focused Shot, you can tell the warrior that he'll have competition (60-70 damage per hit with focused shot. Yes I have tested this build!!). Ritualists, well, tell me when a warrior beats a rit lord when their spirits are up and then ill have something good to say^^. And the pre-build Hot Stepper modified to take wild blow can easily take out a warrior by doing their chain 1 1/2 times.

Now against ele's. Again, Mesmer's have anti caster. Rangers have interrupts. Warriors have interrupts. Assassin's have interrupts. Ritualists have... dissonance.

And then there's the obvious... Ele's can attack at range. So in the unfortunate event that either class meets up with their perfect counter, at least the ele will have the chance to run away. The warrior will be dead before that thought comes to mind.

But then again, I hardly play warrior, I disapprove of frenzy and melee attacking. They save my life plenty of times by tanking, which is what they are really good at.

DeathandtheHealing · Aug 21, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

no...
60 al
a single orb on a monk can do upwards to 180 dmg

final thrust with the under 50% bonus at 16 swords with vamp 146 -3 (highest i've seen )

a warrior is so easy to shut down, imo, I see hundreds of these dumbass eles who blind a war before they spike... which isnt always a bad thing dont get me wrong... but the most effective thing to do is blind just b4 a spike or during.
you have plague touch wars which this is what u have to do to them. blind during spikes, if their going to stop to plague touch it off, then your doing your job stoping spikes.

draxynnic · Aug 21, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vyral

*pages through the gamebook trying to figure out where it says touch skills are Luxon specific*

Given where the front line was last time I logged on, either the touch ranger is overrated, or the Kurzicks are using it, or something equally overpowered, too...

On the main subject: There does seem to be a dichotemy between what people use Elementalists for and what their skills seem to suggest - most of their skills are damage options, but they do usually seem to be used for support on the battlefield...

That said, in my experience, elementalists are still capable of causing a fair amount of damage, even if they are sometimes disguised as Mesmers

. Even flashbots, in many of the games I've seen (admittedly, it's been a while since I watched a GvG) could add to the pressure with the odd lightning strike or orb.

Theus · Aug 21, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

The whole reason why people don't like the fact that elementalists don't do large amounts of damage is simply because of how they were portrayed in past MMO's and RPG's.

I can name several MMO's that had casters do such a superior amount of damage that warriors couldn't even get to their target before they died.

The only elemental that lacks any defensive skills is Fire.Water has,most of its spells that cause slowed movement and Water Trident,Earth has its wards and armor boosting properties,Air has its Blinding Flash and Armor Penetrating skills.